Most CFOs don’t build models where 1% of their company’s net sales (not profits) are given away instantly “right from the top” to help alleviate poverty. But then Cotopaxi is not like most companies. In this episode Cotopaxi CFO, Gary Bowen, explains the pivotal role played by finance and FP&A in “doing capitalism better” while also seeking to become a billion-dollar brand – alongside other outdoor names such as Patagonia, North Face and Columbia. This includes an ambitious new strategy explained by Bowen to move beyond digital sales and into retail–and FP&A’s central role in making this happen.
In this episode Gary Bown CFO of Cotopaxi reveals:
- Starting as operations in customer service and lessons for finance
- How I began as a CFO
- When good finance talent leaves
- Doing fractional CFO services and when businesses need to bring in a CFO
- Being a “Let’s Go” CFO (vs Department of No)
- 1% of Net Sales (not profits) given away, and working that into the model
- Cotopaxi digital retail metrics explained vs retail metrics
- Moving to opening up retail stores and a four wall profitability model
- How to balance investors with giving back principles
- Getting Cotopaxi to a billion dollar company
- Flipping the script from private label to branding at Ogio (and learning the power of branding)
- Flying airplanes, Iron Man competition, and George Washington
Follow Gary Bowen on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-bowen-769a7/
Full transcript
Paul Barnhurst:
Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A Today, I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy. FP&A Today is brought to you by Data Rails, the financial planning and analysis platform for Excel users. Every week we welcome a leader from the world of financial planning and analysis. Today we are delighted to welcome to the show, Gary Bowen. Gary, welcome to the show.
Gary Bowen:
Thank you, Paul. Pleased to be here.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, really excited to have you. So lemme just give a little bit of background on Gary. Gary comes to us from the Salt Lake City, Utah area. He’s currently the CFO for Cotopaxi. He did both his bachelor’s and MBA from BYU, and he has served as CFO for several companies, including Rise Point, Cotopaxi, and Advanced CFO. So one of the things we’d like to do is start with this question and then we’ll give you an opportunity to introduce yourself. What was the most challenging, worst kind of budget forecast exercise you were ever a part of?
Gary Bowen:
<laugh>? I laughed when I read this question. I, I’ve been through a few of those. Um, the worst one, um, I don’t know, it was probably early in my CFO career when, uh, the company I was with was in a really, really tough spot and, we were trying to put together forecasts, uh, to work our way out of that difficult situation. And so, you know, lots of long days and, uh, building new models, a lot of pressure from the bank that we were with at the time and, and, um, just lots of pressure. And so we worked through that one. But, but that’s probably it, probably that situation where I kind of felt like we were three wheels off the cliff and I was a new CFO. Just trying to figure it out.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I could imagine trying to get a company back on track difficult financials and being a new CFO. That’s a tough combination.
Gary Bowen:
It is.There were times during that first year in that role at the time where I felt like I was gonna spontaneously combust
Paul Barnhurst:
<laugh>.
Gary Bowen:
I I thought people might walk into my office one day and just see a pile of ashes in the chair, <laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
That’s pretty funny. So what was maybe the learning experience or the takeaway from that experience for you?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, the, I think the learning from that is, uh, is really making sure that you have good models in place, um, that you understand the business really well too. I think a model is one thing. You can make models say anything you want, obviously, but understanding the business is critical. So knowing what really is driving the business, whether you’re at a product company like cotopaxi or, or I was at OGO for quite a number of years, or a SaaS company like Rise Point. What makes the revenue model go? What makes the balance sheet move up and down and having a really firm understanding of that stuff. Those are the learnings for me.
Paul Barnhurst:
Makes sense. I mean, I think learning that business and understanding of those drivers is critical. It’s really hard to get a, a good model without it.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. If you don’t understand the drivers of it, uh, you’re, you’re not gonna have good outcomes.
Paul Barnhurst:
I, I would totally agree. So why don’t you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you ended up where you’re at today.
Gary Bowen:
Sure. Um, I, uh, grew up in Washington State, was in high school in Spokane. My best friend asked me if I was gonna go to college after school, and I said, yeah, no one in my family had ever gone to college. And so he said, well, let’s go to BYU. And I’m like, okay, that sounds good. I didn’t even know where it was at the time. And so that was the extent of my plan back then. And, uh, anyway, uh, ended up fortunate enough to get accepted and, and graduated. And I went back and got an MBA degree. And so those were, uh, really informative years. I, I really enjoyed MBA school because put a lot more tools in my toolbox to use in different situations. And I found that to be just a fantastic experience plus my schoolmates, you know, people that you were close to and working on projects with in MBA school, you know, you end up doing long hours on projects and you get to know people and different perspectives.
And I thought that was just a, a wonderful life experience. And then just jumped into the world. Uh, I started off with Fidelity Investments initially, uh, doing sales and trading for them. And, uh, that was an outstanding experience. And so I didn’t, I think you, you’ve got a question later on about, uh, my operational experience. I didn’t come up through the normal finance ranks. Like I didn’t get an accounting degree and go into auditing and then make that transition. I came up through the operational ranks. And so my first operational experience was really customer service centered and I really learned a lot about what makes customers happy, what they like, what they hate. And, um, and that was foundational for me as I went forward. And then, um, I went to a smaller company after several years there because I thought it’d be fun to try a small company and learned, I really enjoyed that.
Uh, it was a, a company at the time called Health Benefits America, which was, uh, eventually acquired by ADP given quite a number of roles there to work through, including business proposals, uh, their call center o operations and, uh, technology. And so that was also another great experience. And then really I think the other experiences that I’ve had since then, I was at OGO for, uh, eight and a half years, and that’s where I got my first CFO Run. And the way that happened was, uh, again, a smaller company, the president who had been A CFO at Easton corporation came to me and he said, Hey, I need a CFO and you can do it. And I’m like, sure. And I’m, I’m one that just pretty much says yes to everything that people ask me to do. ’cause I like learning and figuring things out and uh, um, and so at that company I got a lot of experience, uh, in the financial world, learning how to build plans and forecast and work with banking partners and investors.
Uh, that was a great experience. And plus I also was responsible for the distribution center and sourcing and patents and trademarks and customer service and a whole variety of activities. And it was a really just an absolutely foundational experience for me, which I absolutely loved. And then I did spend some time, as you mentioned, an advanced CFO, they’re called Amplio now. They rebranded themselves and are an excellent organization that provides fractional CFO services and we could talk more about that. And then, uh, now I’m here at Cotopaxi and I’ve been here a little over five and a half years and it’s been a, a really fun place to be.
Paul Barnhurst:
Amazing. Interesting. When you mentioned Health Benefits America, I worked there for about six months in 97 at the call center. I was on the, uh, JC Penny account.
Gary Bowen:
You did? Well then we probably worked near each other. Was that, where was the call center? Was it out by Decker Lake?
Paul Barnhurst:
Yes. Yeah, it was up on, I think third floor. Yeah. Something like second or third floor. There were about five or six of us there that were all managing different and different lines. I worked on JC Penney mostly around enrollment issues.
Gary Bowen:
Yes. Yep, exactly. That’s what we did. We put up those lines for six or eight weeks, depending on what the company needed to get people enrolled in their benefits. Yeah. Uh, amazing that we were there at the same time. Yeah.
Paul Barnhurst:
Small world. Kind of funny how it works. Next question here, I’d like to ask, last year, you know, we had, uh, Cole Dixon on the show and he was your head of FP&A at the time. I know he’s gone on to become a CFO at TeeTurtle. Yes. What is it like to kind of lose employees to other roles and how do you manage that?
Gary Bowen:
Well, first off, I’m always really happy for my teammates to find opportunities, uh, and grow and take on more responsibility. Cole wanted to be a CFO and an opportunity came his way and, and we’re really happy for him to go do that. And, and so I’m very supportive when people come to me and say, Hey, I’ve got an opportunity. I wanna move on. And it, it means, in a way, I think I’ve done my job if, if they’ve developed to a point where they can take on new roles that are part of their, you know, career aspirations. So, and you always hate losing good employees like Cole, but at the same time you’re really happy for ’em. And so then it, you know, you just adapt right to you go out and, uh, and find the best person to come in and fill the hole. And, uh, usually takes a little bit of time. So then you work with your existing team to fill the gaps and, and you fill the gaps as CFO as necessary. And that’s how I feel about it. I, I love it when team members, uh, achieve their goals.
Paul Barnhurst:
I, I would imagine a CFO, it’s rewarding to see people reach where they wanna be. Makes you feel like, okay, obviously they’re a good employee and others are seeing it.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, exactly. And they’re recognizing what we do at Cotopaxi and, you know, whatever company a person happens to be at. But yes, it’s very rewarding.
Paul Barnhurst:
Great. No, that’s good. And so next question I’d like to ask you about, and you mentioned this in the introduction, right? I know you’ve have what I’d call a non-traditional route to CFO as you mentioned, you know, you’ve worked in both finance and operations. How do you feel like your operations experience has made you a better finance professional and a better CFO?
Gary Bowen:
I think it’s really important to understand the organization from a practical standpoint. And so when you’re doing budgeting and forecasting and trying to help the organization, uh, grow, I think it’s important to, uh, to ensure your peers and those that you work with, understand you’re there to help them to win. You’re not, uh, I, I don’t like to be the department of no, I like to be the department of let’s go. Obviously in finance, you, you, you have to stick to budgets. You’re responsible for the governance of the organization, you gotta make sure you’re passing audits and, uh, and all the other things that happen as an organization, uh, that’re in compliance. But at the same time, uh, for me anyway, having that operational background, it’s really helped me understand what people are doing, why they’re doing it. And so, and you can ask better questions too, like if you’re talking about a distribution center operation or a customer service operation or, or it, right? Because you’ve worked in it, you know, the better questions to ask and then you can help support. So for me, that’s been a, a big win just because I understand how the rest of the, the operation works.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I could imagine understanding the operations. You know, I’ve always been a, myself, I, a big proponent of FP&A, getting some operations experience. You know, I started my career actually doing, uh, procurement contracts, worked in a business analyst role, spent some time in the business doing some reporting and different projects supporting the business, and then moved over into FP&A. And I feel like it’s been really valuable. So what would you say to people who are, you know, maybe thinking of doing an operations role that are in FP&A, any, any thoughts there or advice you’d offer?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, I highly recommend it if, if you can fit it into the way you wanna grow your career. Because you know, when you go to a distribution center and you’re actually picking orders when the distribution center comes back to you and says, Hey, we want to improve this process because you’ve done it. You understandAnd you say, oh yeah, you absolutely need to do that. Let’s see if we can find a way to make that happen as opposed to, you know, maybe blowing it off. Or if you’ve been on the phones like you and I both have been, and you’re taking calls from customers and you understand the issues that are happening, you know, people are upset about maybe a late fulfillments or how long a refund takes or, you know, whatever the, the issue happens to be when you’ve lived it and felt it and had to respond to it. As a finance professional, you wanna help enable that and do it in a way that’s efficient and cost effective.
Paul Barnhurst:
Totally agree. You really have that appreciation when you’ve done it. And even if you haven’t done it, at least if you spend the time to learn the function, you know, go out and meet with them. Sometimes you may not always have the role, which I think is really valuable, but at a minimum, I’m a big fan of at least making sure you spend time so you have an appreciation for what they’re doing versus strictly a math exercise of do the numbers work and move on. Yeah,
Gary Bowen:
Agreed. And, and you can always go shadow somebody for a few hours and see what they’re dealing with. Right. And you can talk to people and, and when you do that and you get to know what they’re doing, it makes it a lot easier to support.
Paul Barnhurst:
Totally agree. So I, I’m curious, gonna step back just a little bit. I know you were at advanced CFO now Amplio, you know, an outsource CFO support company. We had a couple of the guys that are there now, some of the partners on recently. And I’m just curious from your perspective, when do you think a company should look to bring in a CFO, you know, maybe fractional fp and a support services. What have you seen works best for companies on that front?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, I, I would encourage, you know, having been part of, of very entrepreneurial companies, entrepreneurs have a unique strength. They have vision and an ability to see into the future and create product. Often they’re not necessarily really buttoned up on the finance side, and you don’t necessarily wanna clutter their minds with that, right? Because what they do is so valuable. Like, starting a company’s really hard and, uh, and I I just so admire, uh, you know, Davis and, Mike Pratt who started OGO, um, because they have the capacity to do that, it’s a really, really tough thing to do. And so I, I would really recommend in the beginning that entrepreneurs at least get some support in here to ensure that that gets done correctly right up front. Because if you don’t, what I’ve experienced is that you walk into situations, the data’s bad, you can’t really get audited initially. So you gotta do a lot of data cleanup. A lot of money gets spent cleaning up sales and use tax issues, uh, that have been ignored. Just a myriad of issues that need to get cleaned up and, and can kind of delay the progress of the organization if you don’t take care of ’em initially. So, so I would say, you know, as soon as possible, somebody should have at least some fractional support to make sure that the accounting side is being done well so that you don’t create landmines later on.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no, and I’ve, I’ve heard a lot of, uh, fractional CFOs advisory say when they come in, usually they’re spending months cleaning up the books so they can forecast going forward because things have been recognized in haphazard or a less than ideal manner, whatever you wanna call it. Because like you said, that’s not the, that’s not what the CEO’s strength is unless they come from a finance background. But as a general rule, that’s kind of the last thing that they deal with. ’cause they have to not that they want to.
Gary Bowen:
Right? That’s right. And, and again, you don’t wanna, you know, have them focused on that anyway, because that’s not how they’re adding the most value. And so, you know, to bring somebody in to handle that part that you don’t wanna deal with is really smart. Uh, and like I said, not creating landmines because, you know, I’ve, I’ve cleaned up hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales and use tax issues and other things that could have been avoided, uh, you know, had it been done correctly in the beginning. But, but having said that, you know what, um, great companies overcome those things, uh, all the time. That’s why they bring us in, right? So we can fix that stuff and enable the company to grow.
Paul Barnhurst:
Agreed. No, that’s a good, really good point. So, you know, moving forward, talking about great companies, I know you’re at Cotopaxi company, I’m a big fan of, I, you know, have some gear and really like them. And so I’m curious, what has it been like serving as a CFO with a company that has a purpose, you know, beyond profits and maybe, you know, talk a little bit about what it’s like and then what the purpose is for Cotopaxi so our audience understands.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah. An interesting thing about Cotopaxi is, uh, it’s a, a private benefit corp for PBC Corp. And Davis organized it that way from the beginning. And when he was out fundraising, um, people told him he was crazy because nobody was gonna invest in a company that was gonna start giving money away right from the beginning. And, and Davis [Davis Smith, Founder of Cotopaxi] you know, just a little bit about his, one of the finest men I know, and he’d been impacted as a, you know, a, a child and a young man living in the Central America area with his dad, who was building buildings for the LDS church, um, church of Jesus, Christ of, of Latter Saints. And he saw a lot of poverty and he felt like the only difference between him and them was where he was born. And so it impacted him and he wanted to be able to do something about it.
So that’s why he founded Cotopaxi after two other successful startups that he’d, uh, done. And he wanted to be able to give back. And so he stuck to that mission and he finally found somebody who would invest. And so for us, what we do is we give 1% of our net sales to our foundation, which then in turn supports efforts to alleviate extreme poverty, which is to defined as those who live on less than a dollar 50 a day in the world, which not a lot of money is that Paul. And, and so anyway, and so the, the difference I think that we have compared to others, I’m not judging any others, but the thing that makes it a little more challenging is, um, is that it is off 1% of our net sales. It’s not off of profits. And so we’re always trying to work that into the model as we plan, and we just know that’s coming right off the top.
And then we build that into our models to make sure we support it because it’s why we exist as a company. We love it and we’re excited about it. It’s one of my favorite things to do each month is to transfer that money to the foundation and then hear about what we’re doing with those dollars.And in fact, people can go to our website, uh, look under the Gear for Good section, and they can see our impact reports and, and what we’re doing. They’re very well documented and, uh, they, you know, they’re really something we’re proud of as an organization.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I, no, I can tell you definitely take pride in it. And I know, you know, I’ve connected with Davis a few times and Cole, and I’ve always, that’s one of the things I admire most about Cotopaxi is that focus on alleviating poverty. And so I’m curious, you know, how does finance and FP&A, how do you help support that mission? It sounds like, you know, obviously there’s the obvious that you need to bake that into all your models, but any other thoughts or ways you kind of help support that from a finance perspective?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, sure. So we, we support the foundation as well. So we, we help them get through their audits. Um, we, I’m on actually on the board of the foundation. And so review things and activities that they’re doing and try to support them in any way that we can ensure they’ve got good controls in place. But really kind of everything we do is about supporting the mission of the company of alleviating poverty. So as we’re we’re building models and so forth in the organization, we keep that in mind, right? And so, you know, we make decisions based on the ability to deliver on our mission, but I think our foundation does also a, uh, just a wonderful job. Uh, Annie Agle is the, the woman in charge of that. She’s just absolutely fantastic. And then a guy named Charlie Clark works with her, who’s also just, uh, excellent. And they do a great job of informing cotopaxi at large of what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. And they’ll, they’ll run classes during the month, um, that talk about, uh, they’re called Impact in Action. Uh, and they tell us what they’re doing, which is really informative. And then we brought on, uh, just an outstanding chief people officer, uh, Grace Zuncic, who heads up that area in addition to the people ops and, uh, and she’s just absolutely fantastic in supporting the mission and communicating what’s going on.
Paul Barnhurst:
Great. No, it sounds like definitely a lot of involvement there from a lot of people to manage all that.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, I really, in this case, it, it takes a village as a true statement. All of us work together to support
Paul Barnhurst:
It. That’s great. I, I could see, I could see that from what you said there. So I’m curious, historically, you guys have primarily been a digital first company. I know you started to grow more of a retail footprint, but what are the key metrics you look at from an FP&A finance standpoint with a company that’s kind of, you know, primarily a digital first consumer goods company?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, that, that’s a great question. So we focus on the normal e-commerce metrics, right? You know, roas, uh, average number of units per card and units per order. And, you know, the discount and like e every possibly e-commerce metric you can think of, uh, we work to measure it and then of course focus on the most impactful ones. Uh, and then we of course grew into wholesale. And, you know, our business is, you know, roughly 40%, uh, direct to consumer. That would be e-commerce and our retail stores. We’ve got, uh, about 20 retail stores now and then own owned retail, and then about 40% wholesale. And then another 5% comes from our corporate, uh, co-branding business, uh, which we really think helps get our brand out there. And then another 5% of our revenue is international as we’re trying to expand the brand.
Paul Barnhurst:
[Datarails ad] You know what it is, like 13 different spreadsheets emailed out to 23 different budget holders, multiple iterations, version control errors, back and forth updates you never really feel in control of the consolidation and collection process. Yep. I’ve been there. Stop. Breathe.
Datarails is the financial planning and analysis platform for Excel users. Data rails takes data from all your company’s disparate sources, no organization is too complex, consolidating everything into one place, secured in the cloud. Now all your data finally talking to each other, everything is automated back into your report in Excel. Cashflow FX conversion, intercompany transactions now automated and UpToDate drill down and variance analysis in seconds. Don’t replace Excel, embrace Excel, turn your Excel into a lean mean fp and a machine, find out more@www.data rails.com.
Got it. Okay. No, that, that’s helpful. And I know you guys have been, you know, doing a lot of expansion. You know, I’ve seen there’s been some news articles about expanding the retail footprint. I know your new, uh, president, I think he CEO Damien, uh, yeah, you commented, you know, the retail component becomes incredibly important for us as we grow. So how do you help manage that, you know, from an FP&A perspective that growth? Because I know obviously retail comes with a lot of cost in a different way than an online consumer brand, you know, have those buildings and managing all that. So what has that process been like?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, that’s been interesting. It really does support our brand, uh, growth. And, uh, yeah, Damien Wong has come on board. He came from Eddie Bauer as you pointed out. Uh, he’s got, uh, just wonderful experience. He’s a tremendous leader. And, um, and so we built a a four wall profitability model. So we evaluate each store that’s proposed, uh, coming on board, and we’ll look at all the factors, uh, the square footage of the business, revenue per square foot, uh, the cost of rent, uh, cost of labor in the market, staffing, um, how much inventory we need to maintain, uh, at the location. And, uh, so there’s a whole variety of factors that we look at. And so we’ll build an initial model, then we’ll kind of test it against other stores that we have, and we really believe the store is gonna be able to do that. And then obviously we track the actual results after we go live and, and report on, on a, on a monthly basis, we’ll produce a, a P&L for each store.
Paul Barnhurst:
So you do a p and l for each store and compare it back to what you forecasted and benchmark it against the other stores?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and we kind of benchmark the stores against stores that are like them. And so, uh, obviously we have our top performing stores and other stores that, you know, might be more mid-levels, uh, but they still put off a good, you know, individual store P&L
Paul Barnhurst:
Sure, yeah. I would imagine certain locations are gonna do much better than others, but they probably also cost a lot more from a retail standpoint for those stores. ’cause they’re in a location that would do better.
Gary Bowen:
And that’s right. We have to be really careful where we choose to locate ’em too, because rents, uh, in some areas are, as you just pointed out, much higher than others. And you have to decide it’s worth it to be there based on the profile of the store.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, of course. I mean that, that, that all makes sense to me. Any concerns, you know, as you’re growing a retail footprint coming outta Covid as we’ve kind of seen a shift to more online and, you know, any concerns with that approach? Yeah,
Gary Bowen:
I think, uh, we are always concerned about it. Um, we still see that people like the retail experience, they wanna touch product, try it on, see what it feels like. Um, it, it does help support the e-commerce business. And then we’re integrating the two where, um, you can buy online, pick it up in the store, right? Um, the store kind of have a, what we call an endless aisle where if it’s not actually in the store, we can ship it to you from the e-commerce site. Um, and so we, we integrate those two. But, you know, we are cautious, I would say on the retail side because as you pointed out, there’s a lot of fixed costs with a store and you, you sign a lease and you’re, you’re in it for five years, maybe 10, with an option to exit at five if things aren’t working very well. But it, it becomes really important for that store to perform so it doesn’t become a cash suck on the organization.
Paul Barnhurst:
I could imagine. ’cause you’re, it’s a long-term commitment. Yeah. And so you really, you really have to do your homework up front so you don’t end up with, as you said, a suck on cash or an anchor, so to
Gary Bowen:
Speak. Yeah, that’s right. And one of the things we do to mitigate that is we’ll try pop-up stores, uh, we call ’em that, where we will go into a location where we have an opportunity to do so for maybe a 12 to 18 month lease and let’s just try it out and see how it is in the market. That’s, uh, that’s been a really good tool that we’ve been able to use to help decide, hey, should we stay here or not? Because you, uh, you know, we’ve had a couple of those where we said, this probably is gonna be the best place for us. Let’s not continue with that one. Let’s pick a different location. So that strategy has been very beneficial,
Paul Barnhurst:
Ma makes sense. If you can shorten that lease and kind of use it as a trial period to see how it does. So, you know, I’m curious, obviously, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about the goal of leaving poverty, giving back to society. How do you manage that balance with the fact you guys have VC investors, I think you have Bain and, and some others that have invested in the company and obviously, you know, they’re looking for a return, you know, they’re looking for that financial return. They may also wanna support the mission, but how do you balance the two of those?
Gary Bowen:
Well, very delicately. So obviously, uh, investors have models that they use to obtain their return on investments. And so we’re very mindful of that. Uh, in turn, our investors are very mindful of our mission. Um, in fact, in Bain, uh, with Bain Capital coming on board, they invested from their double impact fund, which is specifically designed to invest in companies like ours. And so they, they came in understanding what our mission is. And then, uh, many of our original investors, of course, understood that from the beginning. And they’ve been, uh, very patient, very supportive.
And what we’re doing is we grow the business and and so forth. But it’s really just, uh, understanding that there’s two needs that you’re trying to serve here and, and really understanding that we need to be profitable to sustainably support our objective of alleviating poverty in the world. And the, the more we grow and you know, we become more profitable, then we’re able to do that more effectively. And we, we really impact a lot of lives, uh, which we’re really proud of and our investors are proud it as well.
Paul Barnhurst:
And I’m curious, you mentioned impacting lives. Do you have maybe a favorite story you could share of an impact you’ve seen from your guys’ company?
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, boy, there are so many of them. Probably maybe one of my favorite ones. Um, we have a program that we, we do at our distribution center where, refugees come in and they become card writers. And so they’ll essentially write cards, thank you for your business. Um, and we’ll ship those out with orders and it gives them a leg up. Um, we’ve also, in conjunction with that, done some, um, I don’t know what the best to call those educational session sessions or help sessions where we help refugees apply for college, you know, while get in a room. And, and uh, we, we actually did that during covid, we did it online on Zoom calls, but, but we help people get involved. And then I was at an event and what was it for? Might have been, I don’t know, one of the events that we have in our community here at the Grand America.
And there was a woman there who she had graduated from the University of Utah and she had come up through our program of card writers, um, and Davis, uh, he’s so awesome at just focusing on individuals and helping the individual. And, uh, and this woman had come up through being a refugee writing cards, uh, now had graduated and had a great job and was doing very productive things in the community. Just very, very rewarding to see that when you see it like on a, an individual basis. Like, here’s somebody standing right here that we were able to help.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I can imagine when you see it on that personal level. I still remember the first, uh, package I ordered from Cotopaxi getting that card. And I remember reading it and I think I’d seen something about it online, but it was just really cool to see the card and realize that that was helping somebody, the program you were doing. So I can relate to you sharing that. ’cause I still remember that first card.
Gary Bowen:
Got. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s really been wonderful and there’s, there’s lots of other stories, uh, that we could share too, but, uh, well we don’t have time to do that, so, but, but there are lots of them.
Paul Barnhurst:
Understand, but No, that’s great. So, you know, how do you see Mission-based companies changing the landscape of capital capitalism such as Cotopaxi, kind of, what’s your take there?
Gary Bowen:
Well, I think Davis’s goal is to do capitalism better. He says that often and, uh, and encouraging others to do the same. And so I think, you know, what we try to do is the way we do things, just try to really show what’s possible, uh, from an organizational standpoint, that if we use our resources, uh, as corporations, we can in fact make our communities better. We can make the world a better place. And it, in the grand scheme of things even though it, it can be challenging, uh, especially in a fast growing company, you know, cash is always under pressure, right? And, and so you’re trying to manage through that, but, but you can make really important things happen. You can make the world a better place by having a mission that you’re focused on. I’m not saying everybody needs to be a B Corp or give 1% of their net sales.
Because there’s lots of companies that do wonderful things, right? And, and maybe they’re not in the news all the time, but their employees are out volunteering, you know, at food kitchens or, uh, fixing up houses or a variety of different activities. But I, I think having a purpose as an organization, whether it’s a specific, you know, mission that your business has stated, or being a B Corp, really Im, improves the business. Like I remember when I was at Rise Point, we adopted a school, an elementary school, that we would go help and we would raise money and go help buy school supplies and, and we would take them down and visit with the kids. And, you know, it was really fun to do that. And so I I I do think we have an opportunity to make a big impact, uh, in our communities. And, and again, lots of companies are doing that.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no, I can remember, you know, I worked at American Express, we’d go out and do different volunteer things. I did, uh, Toastmasters in the school, and I can remember in college doing, uh, junior achievement and different things like that. So I do think there’s a lot of different companies trying to find ways to give back, so I appreciate that.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, I, speaking of junior achievement, I did that too. Going to junior high schools, that was when I was at OGO go help teach, uh, junior achievement classes. I, I loved that. I thought they were really fun. Yeah,
Paul Barnhurst:
Had a lot of fun. I did it during grad school, so when I was at a SU and I loved doing that. It was, it was a good time. It was elementary, I did, but it was
Gary Bowen:
A lot of fun. Oh, sweet. That’s awesome.
Paul Barnhurst:
So next, uh, Davis Smith, he had a quote that he mentions. He goes, if I wanted to have the impact and be part of eradicating poverty, this is speaking about, you know, starting a company goes, I knew I needed to build a business that could be a billion dollars or more. So what’s gonna take for Cotopaxi to become that billion dollar company?
Gary Bowen:
A lot of hard work. That’s <laugh>, that’s the best way I can say it. Just gonna take a lot of hard work. Um, you know, people love our mission and they love our brand because of that, but you still have to make products that people want, right? And that benefit their lives and, and help them achieve their individual goals. And so, uh, you know, just coming back to that, uh, you know, product development, sales, developing markets, and of course, you know, really add to FP&A to help project where we’re gonna go and how we’re gonna get there. Uh, but, but now probably the main thing, it’s gonna take a lot of hard work.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. And so I’m curious, you know, couple things on that. One, do you see a lot of that being through international expansion, kinda retail? Do you have a feeling, you know, kind of what, what that’s mostly gonna consist of for you guys, you guys to get there? You think it’s mostly a consumer approach, maybe a retail, an international, I’m guessing probably all three.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, you hit it right on the head, Paul. It’s gonna really be all three. So there’s a lot of room for us to grow internationally. We’re just barely scratching the surface there. Our retail stores, we’re, we’re going a little more conservative right now till the economy gets a little more solid and then we, we may be more aggressive on that. There’s still a lot of market to be had in, you know, the US and Canada. And so just growing those markets. Uh, but it really is gonna be all three to be able to get there.
Paul Barnhurst:
And then I’m curious, one other thing. I know this isn’t so much finance related, but I have a friend who works in FP&A, he knows your other founder, not Davis, but uh, Stephan.
Gary Bowen:
Stephan Jacob Jacob,
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. Stephan Jacob is great
Gary Bowen:
Guy.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I remember I was wearing some of the gear and he’s like, I love the brand, but I’m just not a fan of the colors. He’s like, I can’t bring myself to buy the gear. Do you feel that limit? I know it’s very ne unique. I like it, it stands out. But do you feel like that limits that ability to grow or how do you manage that? Because I know it’s a unique coloring, it’s unique scheme that may not appear to everybody, appeal to everybody for many of your products. So how do you kind of balance that with trying to, you know, continue to build mass appeal? Any thoughts? I know this isn’t a finance question, but I was curious your take.
Gary Bowen:
No, I I’m very involved in this, so, uh, yeah, it’s a great point. And we are very aware of that issue. And so we’re gonna maintain our DNA with the color, but we are also, uh, making more muted things that will appeal more broadly and, and things that will match and work together. So if you buy, you know, one of the vests that you have on or I have on, we would also provide something that matches with it, right? Something that really could go with anything. And, uh, we have a lot of requests for, you know, just a straight black vest or a jacket, which we, we have in the lineup now. And so yeah, we’re gonna continue to grow that piece of the business. So there’s broader appeal. It’s a great question.
Paul Barnhurst:
Got it. Yeah, no, I was just curious how you manage that with growth. ’cause yeah, I know there’s that trying to appeal to the masses requires different approaches.
Gary Bowen:
Yeah, it certainly does.
Paul Barnhurst:
All right, so I have one question here before we move into our get to know you section and then kind of wrap up. So this is a question we like to ask a lot of people, people, can you tell me about it a time in your career when you experienced what I’ll call a strategic moment, right? A strategic insight that later empowered you to drive change within the organization?
Gary Bowen:
It was kind of early on in my finance career. Uh, it, it was when I was at Ogio actually we were making, we were doing a lot of private label stuff. You know, we were making stuff for Callaway and Target and Sam’s Club and so forth. And the bulk of our sales were private label things. And our president, very wise at the time, said, Hey, we need to flip the script here and make everything about the brand. So we did that. Uh, you know, that was one of those things when he said it, it’s like, man, he’s right. Um, because anybody could come make private label stuff for these big organizations, right? And it’s a precarious position to be in. And so over the next several years, we worked to flip the script there. It took a few years, but we were able to get to almost a hundred percent branded good sales.
The outgrowth of that was that margins were up significantly. But also I learned about the power of branding through that experience and how important a brand is. And that’s why, you know, when I was investigating Cotopaxi initially, I saw the strength of the brand even though it was very small at the time. And Davis was sincere in his desire in what he was doing, because I did a lot of reading about him before coming on board. And um, and so that would be probably one of the biggest strategic moments of my working career is that the brand is so important. It means something to people. They identify with it, they wanna be associated with it. That’s why any other brand is strong Under Armour or Nike or Lululemon, right? Some of these brands that we all know and, and like the stuff that they make,
Paul Barnhurst:
It makes a lot of sense. A brand makes a huge difference. I’ve seen that in my own business and, you know, things I’m trying to do and how people recognize brand. So I appreciate that makes a lot of sense. So this is our get to know You section. You get no more than 30 seconds to answer each question. We have four questions for you. So here goes the first one. What is something interesting about you that not many people know?
Gary Bowen:
Not many people know. Um, I don’t know. I, I don’t know. I, I like flying airplanes. Um, I, I don’t do it a ton, but I like doing that. I’m not a full-fledged pilot yet, but it’s something I really enjoy. I like flying small planes and, and doing that. Um, so that’s maybe one thing I’ve done an Ironman uh, triathlon too. Maybe that’s another thing people dunno.
Paul Barnhurst:
I was gonna say, not many people dunno that I’ve done a half. I couldn’t bring myself to <laugh>, spend that much time for a full, so I, I I admire. That’s an accomplishment. Alright, so next question. If you could meet one person in the world, dead or alive, who would you meet and why? You
Gary Bowen:
Know, I would love to meet George Washington. What he went through to help our country achieve, um, independence was just nothing short of remarkable and how he held together a volunteer army under the circumstances low paid the winter, you know, facing the mighty British. Um, obviously we’ve become great friends with that nation and allies, but I would love to sit down and talk to him and understand what he was going through and how he held it together.
Paul Barnhurst:
That would be a fascinating conversation. I’ll be a fly on the wall for that one.
Gary Bowen:
<laugh>. Awesome.
Paul Barnhurst:
Alright, so what is the last thing you Googled looked up on YouTube or used chat? GPT or Gemini or any of these generative AI tools as it relates to finance FP&A or Excel?
Gary Bowen:
Um, I did just like two days ago go into chat GTP and ask it how it would build a financial model?, it wasn’t that insightful to tell you the truth. Like, it, it gave the steps and things, but there wasn’t really anything I, I, I suppose AI hasn’t quite figured that one out yet. Still takes a, a lot of human intervention in there, but it did give a great overview of how, you know, the elements that should be included.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no, I could see that good overview, but may not get the details yet. Still, still some, uh, learning to do for sure with that. Yeah. So, so speaking, uh, we mentioned Excel in the last question, so kind of going to excel, what’s your favorite thing about Excel? Maybe function feature, what do you like most about it?
Gary Bowen:
Oh man, I, I like a lot of things about Excel. I like, I like the solver function. I like pivot tables. I like its ability to pull data in from different sources and manipulate it. There’s, so much it can do. Like, it’s cool when you build a financial model and there’s like, you know, 30 tabs in it and they all interact together and you get a result that makes sense. Like, I, I love that it can do that.
Paul Barnhurst:
It’s pretty amazing that you could have all these different sheets and data inputs and that at the end of the day, the number makes sense. That’s always the amazing part when it doesn’t make sense. That’s the frustrating part, but that’s another, yeah.
Gary Bowen:
And that happens all the time, right? So you, you always get results that don’t make sense. You’re like, why isn’t giving me this output? And then you gotta dig through it and find out what do you need to change and just keep iterating until you get there.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yep. We’ve all been there. I just did one the other day. The balance sheet didn’t balance and it’s like, okay, why? What did I do wrong?
Gary Bowen:
<laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
Alright, we just have two questions left. We know we’re coming up on the end of our time here. What advice would you offer to someone starting a career in FP&A today? If you could give ’em a piece of advice?
Gary Bowen:
Uh, I would say just in general, just be really curious, uh, and, and develop a growth mindset. Uh, there’s a book that I love by Carol Dweck called Mindset and Okay, you’re gonna have it right there on your shelf.
Paul Barnhurst:
No, I have it here somewhere. Of course, I can’t find it at the moment. I think I pulled it the other day. I may have said it somewhere, but I know exactly what book you’re talking about.
Gary Bowen:
It, it’s such a great book, right? And, uh, and it just teaches you that the growth mindset is so valuable to an individual because you’re never gonna think you know everything. You’re gonna always think, man, there’s something more for me to learn here. It’s something else that I can apply and I can learn from others Right. As well as being able to teach. And so, you know, that’s like one thing that I’ve discovered as a leader over many years is that I learn as much from my team as, you know, they probably, I probably learn more from them than they learn from me because they bring different perspective as insights and they’re better at some things than I am. And, and I, I really enjoy that piece of it. So, so I would just say, yeah, just be curious, you know, continue learning, take online classes about functions you don’t understand in Excel or whatever tools you’re trying to use, if it’s Power BI or something else. And, and uh, and just be curious and learn. Just keep learning and learning. Yeah,
Paul Barnhurst:
I, I love that. I couldn’t agree more that curiosity and learning is so critical to everything we do. That growth mindset will carry a long way. So, huge fan of that advice. So last question. If someone wants to learn more about you or maybe getting hold of, get ahold of you, what would be the best way for them to do that?
Gary Bowen:
Um, really on LinkedIn’s probably best. Yeah, you can just find me. Just look up Gary Bowen. Kodiak. So you’ll easily find me and then shoot me a message and I’ll respond.
Paul Barnhurst:
All right. Great. Well, thank you for carving out some time today. Gary really enjoyed chatting with you and having you on the show and good luck, uh, achieving that mission of hitting a billion dollars.
Gary Bowen:
Well, thank you Paul, and it’s been a pleasure being here with you. I’m honored to, to be on this outstanding podcast. I love the episodes that you produce. I, I think you do a fantastic job.