Tunc Tezel has managed FP&A at companies including Ontex, Pladis, British American Tobacco, Procter & Gamble, and Gillette. He has lived and worked in 11 different countries including the UK, Iran, Sub-saharan Africa, Turkey, Latvia, Belgium
Now, Tezel is VP of global FP&A at Ontex, a publicly listed leader in private label manufacturing baby care, feminine care and adult care products for stores including Walmart, Aldi, Lidl,Tesco and Carrefour.
In this episode provides his takeaways from a career at the cutting edge of FP&A:
- What do you do with your company’s budget when overnight interest rates hit 3000%. And the Turkish lira was devalued by 60% overnight
- How FP&A powers private label manufacturing vs working at big brands
- How we coped with the pandemic and the shift to economically challenged consumers trying private labels
- Moving from brand ambassadors to product ambassadors
- How FP&A is supporting ESG
- Business supporting finance managers – should you call them FP&A Managers or
- Finance Business Partners (and why it matters)
- The challenges of data in FP&A work
- FP&A as co-pilot in a rally car
- Secrets of bringing the numbers to life Cooking and seafood
- Why I would have loved to meet Atatürk, founder of the Turkish Republic
- The last thing I asked Google/Chat GPT about my finance work
Episode Notes
Connect with Tunc Tezel on LinkedIn.
Tunc Tezel: Banking CIO Outlook: FP&A Vs Finance Business
Paul Barnhurst:
Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A Today, I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy. FP&A Today is brought to you by Datarails, the financial planning and analysis platform for Excel users. Every week we welcome a leader from the world of financial planning and analysis. Today we are delighted to have on the show with us Tunc Tezel. Welcome to the show.
Tunc Tezel:
Thanks for having me.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, very excited to have you. So, a little bit about his background. He’s coming to us to us from the London area. He has a bachelor’s degree in industrial engineering and his MBA. He currently is working as a senior leader at Ontex, and he’s worked for such global companies as Proctor and Gamble, British American Tobacco, Plaus Global, and Ontex. So, where we like to start each show is with a fun question we like to ask everybody. So we’ll give you this one and see what your answer is. What was the most challenging or worst, you know, however you wanna define it, budgeting experience you’ve had during your career?
Tunc Tezel:
Well, it’s a, it’s a nice one. Uh, I think it was in 2001. I’m originally Turkish, so I was in Turkey at that time in 2001. It was during the economic crisis where the overnight interest rates hit 3000%. And the Turkish lira was devalued by 60% overnight and continued devaluing 120% throughout the year. So, as you can imagine, the market was very speculative and all the companies were either not selling anything, stop selling or, you know, increasing their prices frequently. So we had this crisis team in place and then we were meeting like twice a day checking the pulse of the trade and the consumers and such, you know, on a constant basis. And, you know, we were just selling based on the consumer’s demand to avoid the stockpiling or the profiteering with the distributors or the retailers. And then we were changing the prices on a daily basis, as you can imagine. And then we were asking for cash payments onreceivables. As you can imagine, they were hald, you know, being incurred assive losses, both due to the foreign currency loans and also the import payments. So the balance sheet just collapsed. It was, I mean, we had a smaller problem because of the receivables. They were much smaller in the US dollar terms, so we lost half of it. So that was a kind of a very difficult time that we, you know, I, when I look back, I learned a lot from that.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I, I would imagine you learned a lot. And so kind of speaking of that, I’m curious what were maybe the key learnings or the takeaways from going through that time of just economic upheaval? And just drastic changes overnight and flipping everything upside down, so to speak.
Tunc Tezel:
True, true. I mean, you become, first of all, you become very agile and you know, you become resistant, I would say as well. You know, having lived in that environment and then learn to stay calm because if you panic, it’s the worst thing that you can do. You know, if you stay calm, everybody stays calm as leaders, you know, you look up, you look up if the GM is calm and you know, giving the orders, you know, you’re listening to everybody and then making the calls together as a team. I think that was the key thing I learned. And the other one is, you know, it’s a, it’s a cliche, but sales is vanity, profit is sanity and cash is reality. So at the end you have to have the cash.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. But to say cash is king, cash is queen. Yeah. You know, as I heard someone’s once say you have a, you have a going entity till you don’t have cash. Right. You have a business till you don’t. And when you don’t, it’s always because of cash.
Tunc Tezel:
True. True. So true. So
Paul Barnhurst:
Really good point. I appreciate that one. So why don’t we start with just you telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and what you’re doing today.
Tunc Tezel:
Sure. When I was deciding for the university, I wasn’t sure about engineering or business administration. So I ended up in the industrial engineering, you know, it’s just in between. Then I completed my MBA and chartered management accountancy so that I can have a career in finance. You know, having grown up with a father who was a banker. So I think that’s influenced me a bit>.
Paul Barnhurst:
Sure.
Tunc Tezel:
I believe studying engineering also gave me the analytical thinking capability. You know, looking at things in a holistical way with a, you know, process, process mind or process perspective. And you know, also growing up in Turkey with such economic volatility and the political volatility made me a bit agile in terms of thinking and decision making. And also I strongly believe that, you know, any decision is better than no decision under the circumstances. You know, if you have to make a quick decision. And you know, with the Pareto rule, as you all know, I mean if you have the 80% of the facts, just make the call. Especially in today’s environment after the pandemic, you know, quick decision making, being agile, flexible to adopt, that makes a big difference in the inflationary environment we all operate in. Uh, I lived and worked in 11 different countries, which is an amazing experience, especially if you have the positive mindset and open to exploring different cultures.
It’s not easy, you know, if it’s, you are always on the move, but you know, it requires quick adaptation, especially if you’re with the family. So, you know, I was very lucky, I was blessed with that, to have the most adaptable and friendly family in that sense. You know, wherever we went, they just quickly adopted, you know, made friends in the schools or around the schools and they all loved and enjoyed traveling. And when we came to London, we were we were in Iran before London and after two years my son was saying, so what’s next? And I was like, we are staying here. It’s nice, you know, for your education and such.
Tunc Tezel:
We should stop hopping around, you know. And also I’m very lucky to work with amazing companies. I mean, like you mentioned, the Gillette Procter & Gamble, British American Tobacco Pladis, which owns Godiva chocolates, United Biscuits. Then, you know, now with Ontex, I met amazing people, colleagues, bosses and friends across the globe. So, and the great part of that is wherever I travel, I can get a coffee with an old friend, you know, and catch up.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. I was gonna guess wherever you go, you probably know somebody. So do you have a kind of a favorite place that you’ve lived? Like maybe one place that you know was really unique or that you particularly enjoyed? Because that’s a lot of different countries and I’m sure on top of that you’ve traveled a lot. So is there maybe, you know, place you really enjoyed that you’ve lived?
Tunc Tezel:
I mean, London is special for us beause that’s where we met with my wife. Sure. But I think we have amazing time in South Africa. We loved it and it’s because of the people, you know. But from the day we moved in, we were living in a big compound and you know, every weekend we were invited to a barbecue, they call it braai over there. And uh, you meet people and they were like, Hey, why don’t you come to us tomorrow evening? And we were just hop around to different houses and meeting different people, lovely people, you know, so friendly. We never felt alone there.
Paul Barnhurst:
That’s great. I mean, it’s wonderful when you find a place where you always feel welcome, especially when you’re moving around the world and going to new places and you don’t know anybody. To have that welcoming culture makes a huge difference. So that’s, that’s awesome.
Tunc Tezel:
It makes it so easy.
Paul Barnhurst:
I bet. So why don’t you tell our audience a little bit about Ont Text your company and what it, what it does, you know, and what your role is there.
Tunc Tezel:
Sure. Uh, Ontex is a publicly listed company in Belgium. Uh, it is the global market leader in manufacturing. The private label, baby care, feminine care and adult care products. Our customers include the Walmarts, Aldi, Lidl,Tesco Carrefour and the likes on retailer side, as well as the healthcare industry, which which where we serve the elderly care, homes, hospitals, and such as we produce private label. That’s why as a company name, you don’t hear it unlike the Proctor Gambles or the Kimberly Clarks and such.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. It makes sense when it’s private label, unless you’re in the industry, you don’t know the, the company that’s doing it. Yeah. What are, what are some of the unique challenges you face as a private label and selling private label products? ’cause I know it’s obviously different than brand names, so maybe talk a little bit about that.
Tunc Tezel:
Sure. So it’s all about the product, whereas in the, if you’re in the A brands, it’s in the name is, it’s about the brand. You sell the brand. Whereas here, we try to sell the products. That’s why manufacturing the private label, it’s about all about staying agile, quick to innovation, partnering closely with your customers and responding to their needs. It’s about producing large quantities in the most cost effective way. then pass it on to the customer. And with a very good quality exceeding the cus consumer expectations. ’cause the thing is, you don’t advertise the product. That’s why exceeding the consumer’s expectation is key there. So margins are low and then you need to manage them carefully. And also the different part with this business is you go through the deals or agreements, which are done through tenders. So the key discussion during those negotiation is to move away from the pricing and the discounts and focus on the quality, innovation and value addition to the consumers, uh, following the pandemic.
And with the recent inflationary environment, uh, we see, you know, a certain down trading from the consumers. We have been seeing that trend across Europe for some time now. And it’s coming over to us as well. The conversion from a brands to private label is initially through through pricing and economically challenged consumers, you know, they’re looking for cheaper alternatives. Yeah. And then, you know, once they try and see the quality, which is very similar to the A brands, then they become hooked to your products. And that’s the key thing. Then they’re, they become your product ambassadors, not brand ambassadors. Beause it’s not about brand, it’s about the product. And it, you know, the world of mod becomes, becomes your advertising. And sometimes the retailer brands, brands, they become so successful they overtake the A brands in some markets. I can proudly say that as an example in Poland, you know, we are the market leader in baby care products. So well above the famous A brands and the discounters such as the Aldi, Lidl they have done this strategy is so successfully across Europe now expanding into the other markets and all the other big retailers are following them, following the trend.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no, I’m, I’ve, uh, you know, done private label for years and if it’s a good, if it’s a good product, I don’t care, you know, what the label is on it. If you’re gonna charge me 30 cents less or whatever the price may be, and you’re just as good quality, why wouldn’t I do it? But I think historically there’s been some fear, you know, it took, it took time in some areas for the product to be at the same level. I’ve definitely seen it that, like, I remember as a kid trying some private label cereals and they were pretty bad compared to the brand name. And today I notice no difference.
Tunc Tezel:
True,
Paul Barnhurst:
True. And so, you know, I’m, I’m definitely one who’s willing to try it and I would totally agree with you in an inflationary environment, like we’ve seen everybody’s looking for ways to save money and a great way to do that is to switch to a private label when you’re getting a product that sometimes is superior. True. You know, often at least parody and almost always a lower price when you go private label.
Tunc Tezel:
True. And as retailers, I mean, they are giants so, you know, they, they demand good quality products so they don’t go for anything less. So that’s why, I mean, you can trust retailer brands in that sense.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no, that makes, that makes a lot of sense that you can, you know, trust that they, they have to keep a certain quality because of their size and what they’re doing. And one thing you mentioned is, you mentioned margins are really thin there, so I’m guessing it’s primarily a volume play. It’s really, you gotta get large quantity to, you know, get the return for private label. Is that a fair kind of assessment?
Tunc Tezel:
You have to sweat your assets, you sweat the machinery and such. So that’s why the volume is critical. But again, going for the consumers to win it, in their mind it’s about, you know, the quality of the products and the it, the quicker the innovation you bring into the products. And that’s why we are trying to differentiate. So it takes A brands, you know, a longer time compared to us and then we can just imitate and even do it better than the others in a such a short frame. So bring it back to the market. And that’s the key I think winning with the, uh, with the retailers they see that, you know, we have that because we are not as big as the others so we don’t have to worry about the brand and such. It’s about, it’s about the product.
Paul Barnhurst:
Sure. Yeah. You don’t have all the marketing costs and those type of things. That constant brand recognition. Brand awareness, you can focus all that on the quality of the product and your relationships.
Tunc Tezel:
Correct. Correct. So that’s why we invested,
Paul Barnhurst:
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So, you know, I’m curious, this is shifting gears here a little bit, but you know, I was looking at the website and one of the things I noticed quite a bit about on, Ontex website is just talk about ESG initiatives, right? That’s a big thing, especially for public companies. So I’m curious, how does your team and the work you’re doing in FP&A, how do you help support those ESG initiatives?
Tunc Tezel:
I mean like any other company, ESG is becoming a big item in the agenda and you know, we have been delivering on the scope one and two, which is relatively easier compared to the Scope three. And that’s proving to be more challenging, especially under the inflationary environment where we operate. ’cause you cannot really charge the consumers for that additional that you are gonna provide to them. They’re not willing to pay at the moment. And with the manufacturers you cannot offset it with your efficiencies. Because as I said, the margins are thin and you know, that’s why it’s taken a bit off more time I think to get there. But I think eventually both companies and then the consumers, we will find the equilibrium somewhere in between. Uh, from an FP&A perspective, uh, we are investing into the systems ’cause the requirements are increasing on the reporting side.
So we are trying to find the right solution for it. We had a few meetings recently and learn to improve the system so that we can extract the information from our reporting, you know, be it your ERP systems easily. It’s a bit of a work still. But I think, I think we will get that. I mean we have to get that anyway ’cause there is a deadline for that. So we are working together with our sustainability team on it. So next year, hopefully within the next first quarter or second quarter we have to get things done.
Paul Barnhurst:
So working right now on some of the reporting pieces to make sure you can, uh, you have the capabilities to meet all the future requirements as they continue to roll out.
Tunc Tezel:
Correct? Correct. I mean as you know, I mean all the companies, they are sitting on a pile of data at the moment. But it’s just the key thing is how to analyze that data and get the right metrics out of that. Which is, which we are struggling with that.
Paul Barnhurst:
I think everybody struggles with it to a certain extent. You know, I mean I thought AI would just solve it all for us, but I guess not yet.
Tunc Tezel:
We’re not there yet. Yes. <laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, no data. Anyone who’s worked in FP&A has definitely dealt with the challenge of, okay, we have the data. It’s either not quite the quality we want, not in the format we want is missing this one field we need. Right. Whatever it might be. It, it’s never perfect. And like you said, in some areas you just have to go with 80% at the same time. Especially when you have regulatory requirements, you got a baseline you gotta get to. And so it’s okay, how can I make sure that it at least covers that so I minimize my risk from a regulatory standpoint.
Tunc Tezel:
Correct. Especially from a reporting. ’cause we are publicly listed company, you have to report those metrics. So we have to get that.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. And you said you’re listed in Belgium, right? Is that where you’re listed? So kind of speaking of that, that being a public company, you know, what’s it like to help prepare, you know, the CFO and the company for those quarterly earning calls for, you know, being prepared to share with the market how you’re doing. I imagine that’s a busy time for you and FP&A.
Tunc Tezel:
It is. I think that’s the fun, fun part of it. And I listened to your episode on the storytelling and also I wrote an article on the business partnering versus the FP&A and the importance of the storytelling there. So before any result announcement, I mean we get as a team together look at the highlights of the achievements and then we, you know, dig deeper into underlying the drivers to understand what were they. And then also we check it how it is fitting with our strategy and the long-term expectations. And if we can link the results to your strategy, you have a coherent story. And also being transparent and open with the board really helps to move forward quickly. We have a very active board. We have a few active investors in there and that they’re all very good at listening and advising. And also we have some, as I said, active investors and makes it easier for us. You know, we do the sound check with them before we go for the announcements. And if we can sell the story to them, you know, it’s good to go.
Paul Barnhurst:
That that is great to have that sounding board of okay, if we pass the test with them and they’re comfortable that it all sticks together and the story is coherent and transparent, then we know odds are we’ll be good in the the earnings call.
Tunc Tezel:
Yes. I, that’s why I mean the act activist investors, they are very important in the boardroom. If you have those guys, you know, they have a skin in the game so they will be brutal and they will tell you the truth.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. You know, when I always think of Actis activist investors, I’m reminded of one that, you know, kind of came in and tried to make a bunch of changes to the company when I worked for American Express. And I kind of laughed because they bought a bunch of the company and they wanted to split it up. They bought a few billion dollars. But basically to do that, they were starting a proxy fight with Warren Buffet beause he was the main shareholder of American Express. And he had once said his two favorite leaders he’d ever met in his lifetime were Nelson Mandela and Ken Chenault, who was the CFO of American Express. I’m like, okay, what private investor is gonna dump billions of dollars into a company and think they’re gonna win a proxy fight with Warren Buffett when he is the main shareholder, you know, activist investor. They, they took a $600 million loss, I think six months later was less than a year and it was 600 to a billion dollars. And I just remember shaking my head, you know, so that’s what always comes to mind when I think activist investors, ’cause I was working for an American Express and watched all that unfold. We’re just like, what are these guys thinking? Even if their idea is right, who’s going to, who’s gonna go into a proxy fight against Warren Buffet?
Tunc Tezel:
Exactly. You have to pick your fights, right?
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, exactly. Pick
Tunc Tezel:
The punch. Who can win? You know,
Paul Barnhurst:
There has to be a lot of hubris there to think you’re gonna win that fight, <laugh>. So anyway, that was probably, that’s the one memory that always comes to mind when I think of activist investors. But I know what you mean. When you have ones that are there to really, for the benefit of the company and give that feedback, they can be fabulous. Right? Yeah. Just like someone who’s active on the board versus that person who only shows up once a quarter, rubber stamps whatever you want and leaves and just like, as long as I get my money out, do whatever you’re gonna do. You know, they’re not gonna challenge you.
Tunc Tezel:
Exactly. Exactly. If there’s no challenge, then you cannot become better in what you do. So
Paul Barnhurst:
A hundred percent agree. It’s why feedback is so important. You know, having that loop and having people that can honestly give you good feedback and help you realize what you’re doing well and where you can improve.
Tunc Tezel:
Yes. It’s a priceless gift feedback.
Paul Barnhurst:
I agree. You know, that’s, that’s what me and my training partner always say when we train people. It’s like, please give us feedback. We mean that we really want it. And then we try to incorporate it in our courses. Sometimes you get it and it takes you a minute to be like, oh, I disagree with that. And you have to set the pride aside. But as long as you have the right frame of mind, it could always be beneficial.
Tunc Tezel:
True. So true.
Paul Barnhurst:
You know, you wrote an article, we talked a little bit about business partnering and the storytelling. So you wrote an article for Banking CIO Outlook. And in that article you talked about fp and a versus finance business partnering. Can you maybe talk a little bit about what led to you writing that article? Like how did that come about?
Tunc Tezel:
Funny enough, I mean I was debating with my boss at that time and then we were talking about the FP&A guys, my team I use, I always call them commercial partners. Commercial business partners. And he was like, no, they’re not commercial business partners. We should call them FP and A managers. So we had that, you know, intellectual debate with him and I was laughing at it, you know, it’s not about the title, it’s what you do at the end. You know, it’s not, you know, I’m very passionate about the business partnering. I’m very commercial minded as well. People always like the, you know, the right hand man of the GM so that I can support the business and move it forward. And I kept telling my team that, you know, they need to get involved in the day-to-Day business to understand the wiring and the levers of the business where they can make, change the shift and make an impact in the business. So it’s not about pure accounting or adding up the numbers or forecasting. We need to add value to what we do. So asking the right questions, finding the solutions and leading accordingly. That’s why it’s all about, you know, where I see it’s all about the business partnering part.
Paul Barnhurst:
I, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, my favorite part of FP&A has been always supporting the business. I’ve tried to stay away from corporate as much as I can. As I like to joke, I’m allergic to corporate fp and a. It’s like I don’t wanna be the one who’s just rolling up all the numbers from other people. I wanna be there with the GM and the sales team and having those conversations and finding ways with them to help solve the problems and move the business forward. I, for me, I think that’s the exciting part of fp and a and I think a great business partner, what, regardless of what role you wanna call ’em, a great business partner with that finance lens can really play a huge role, can make a big difference when they understand the business and they also understand the finances. ’cause as I’ve heard someone put it, you know, if you look at a company, there’s only a few few people that get a full view of the company. Most people just have their individual roles. FP&A can generally see the whole company. You know, again, it depends on the size of the company and your exact role. But in general, especially a smaller company, the CFO and the CEO outside of that, almost nobody gets that lens of the whole company. So I think it’s invaluable to be a business partner.
Tunc Tezel:
You are spot on. I mean, Paul, the, you are in the kind of control center. You are in the brain of the company and then you see the data on demand supply customers, you know, seasonality, margins, pricing, whatever you name it. And then, you know, if you can come up with the right analysis and trigger the right discussions, then the business can move forward. And that’s what our roles are as business partners to help them move the business forward.
Paul Barnhurst:
And so how do you, how do you help ’em have those right conversations? What are some things you do to think about that? Because I think that’s a real challenge, especially for someone relatively young in their career, is knowing how to help move the business forward and how to think about those conversations.
Tunc Tezel:
It’s all about being curious, I guess. I mean, asking the right questions is important. And you know, you go out into the trade, you know, take a visit with the sales rep, get into his brain and understand, you know, what he’s going through throughout today. Go and visit the warehouse or you know, a factory floor and see, you know, how the products are made. Those are the things that, you know, gives you a different perspective when you just adopt the numbers. Then you understand the, you know, how they are being constructed as a product, you know, and once you get that view and in the discussions and then it’s a multifunctional things that we operate together with those guys. And there you need to ask, again, it’s about questioning. It’s asking the right questions so that you can get the right answers. So that’s a, I think, key thing, key skill which you learn throughout the time. Yeah.
Paul Barnhurst:
So if I’m, if I’m hearing you right, there’s really a couple things I heard in there. And I think the first is we have to be curious. We have to constantly be learning. And one of the most important things we can learn is the operations of the business. Be willing to go out on the shop floor or listen in to a sales call or go to a, you know, a meeting with a customer. So make sure you spend some time outside of the spreadsheet. We all love our numbers, everybody loves Excel, but sometimes you need to close it and go be with the business. And then the last thing I’ve heard there is just learning to ask questions. And over time you’ll get better at that and be able to hone in on what those right questions are as you try to help guide the business. Is that a fair assessment?
Tunc Tezel:
It is, it is. And then, I mean, I’ll make an analogy there as well. Again, you know, it’s like reading the map in a rally car as a co-pilot. And once the driver of the car or the pilot of the car is driving a hundred miles an hour in the forest with full confidence in your directions and telling him, you know, there’s a corner there on the right left, there’s a bump trees, uh, without losing any time as well as not crashing the car <laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I, I love that analogy. I was just sitting there thinking I would crash the car <laugh>. They wouldn’t want me to be the co-pilot <laugh>. I’d be like, I’ll be the one in the backseat. And someone else can be the co-pilot <laugh>. But no, that is a really good analogy. ’cause it can definitely be a challenge. And we really have to be constantly looking ahead as one of, uh, my friend said he had a CEO who had worked in accounting and fp and a and worked his way up to A CEO and he goes, I want my fp and a team to help me peek around corners. It’s kind of like your idea, right? If you’re out in that rally car, you gotta help. Okay, there’s a tree here, take a left there, right there. You know, another person put it as one of the best skills fp and a can have is being able to anticipate called it, you know, the great anticipator. Correct. And so I think it’s kind of like what you’re talking about, we have to have that ability to kind of be able to look ahead to a certain extent and help the business see where they should be going or what the pitfalls could be.
Tunc Tezel:
Correct. Looking into, again, it’s keeping the pulse of the business, understanding the business together with your, you know, commercial guys and then you can help them navigate through that storm or, you know, navigate through any of the negotiations as I be there with them.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, I like the navigation analogy. That’s a good one. So, you know, we, we, you’ve talked a fair amount about business partnering. We’ve obviously, we both talked about how that’s a crucial today, but how does an fp and a professional, what skills do they need to be a great business partner? We’ve talked about the curiosity, we’ve talked about, you know, a little bit about anticipation, but what are some of the other skills that you think are really important for great business partnering?
Tunc Tezel:
I think one critical one is about storytelling. It’s about, it’s not about only the numbers, but bringing the numbers to life. Understanding what’s behind the numbers. And it’s the key differentiator in a data-driven world. Otherwise we could easily replace by the bots or the artificial intelligence, you know, so we need to be providing clear insights and influence to decision making. So get the understanding behind the data. And one other key thing is building trust with the suppliers. And coming from that rally analogy, you know, they need to trust you so that you know, when you tell them turn right, they immediately turn right. And it’s not only with your commercial teams or suppliers, it’s with customers and you know, everybody involved in that. They need, you need to build that trust with them. Credibility is important and we need to keep the integrity at all times working with cross-functional teams so that you cover all the angles. That’s, that’s important. You need to involve others as well. So you cannot be the, we are not superheroes. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we oversee all the information, but I think it’s gonna be too much to expect from a one man to give all the advice to everybody else. That’s why you need all the brains around you. You know, you come up with a team solution.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. And, and that’s why it’s partnering, right? We’re all in this together. It’s not, oh, here, I’ll tell you what you need to do as a business. If that’s your approach, you’re not gonna get very far. Generally nobody wants to hear that from the finance person. Yeah. Or from anyone for that matter. But true, true. I’d say particularly finance. And so I really liked one of the things you said in there, you talked about just the importance of storytelling. I know in your article you talked about how that’s a key skill for fp and a professionals today. So how do we become better storytellers? What, what has worked for you in your career?
Tunc Tezel:
If my memory is not wrong? In one of the interviews, you know, Morgan Freeman, the actor, he said, I always believe that there is a reason why we have two ears and one mouth. So we listen twice and speak once <laugh>,
I believe in active listening and being, again, going back, being curious is key for me going out, you know, be with the teams, understanding the wiring of it, watch them, how do they do their jobs, understand, you know, ask the questions. That’s really helped me understand the wiring of the business. And also help me to recommend improvement areas as an outsider. ’cause when you come outside from out with a different perspective, I mean, you can’t tell them that, oh, have you tried doing it this way? You know, or if I give you a different laptop or an iPad instead of a computer, then you know it’s gonna cut your data entering time by this much. And they love this kind of, you know, they’re like, wow, okay. I haven’t thought of that. You know? ’cause I always worked on the computer. I never thought of the iPad again, just on the storytelling.
It’s just, lemme tell you a funny story from my days in Dubai, uh, we prepared the budget for the Middle East and Africa region. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then we submitted and then the marketing guys in the headquarters in London, they came back and said that, you know, we are gonna increase your budget for the deran sales. ’cause you know, middle East is very hot, so you should be selling more de aans. And then I invited the marketing directors to Dubai. He is a friend of mine. And then I arranged him a trade visit together with the sales rep in event in July. So they went out, it was around 50 degrees centigrade, <laugh> trying to sell deodorants. So I left him for a day, eight hours full out. Then I met him in the hotel. He was exhausted. And then I asked him, you know, do you, do you still believe that we can sell more deodorants, you know, under these conditions? And he was like, no. Then think before you ask for more, you know, it’s all about understanding what you’re asking from the others.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. That, that’s a great way to help ’em understand. I like that. That’s a really good story. And sometimes as they say, you know, there’s no better way to understand somebody’s needs or where they’re from, than walking a mile in their shoes. And that’s basically what he did. Right. It makes the difference. He had to walk a full day in very hot heat and I’m sure he was miserable by the end of those eight hours. I used to live in Phoenix, Arizona. And so I’ve been out in that 115, 118 degree heat. And you’re out there very long. It’s tiring.
Tunc Tezel:
It’s,
Paul Barnhurst:
It’s, I can, yeah. All right. So, you know, next question here for you, kind of shifting gears. You know, we’ve talked a little bit about storytelling, business partnering, what you’re doing. But I’m curious, as you look forward, you know, we get ready to head here into 2024 and beyond, what do you see as maybe the biggest challenge? And then on the flip side, the biggest opportunity for fp and a going forward?
Tunc Tezel:
I mean, it’s a great question. I was gonna say, if, if it didn’t say the opportunity, I would say I’ll see it as more of a opportunity rather than a challenge. But it’s the use of data and introducing the artificial intelligence. I think probably everybody knows it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But it’s just, we haven’t cracked the code yet. We haven’t find the smart way to, you know, how we integrate artificial intelligence into our systems and get the best out of it so that we can improve the production supply demand, you know, the whole supply chain or the value chain of the whole thing so that we can become more agile and you know, responsive to cons, consumer and customer needs. And I think the one who’s gonna crack that code will be ahead of the rest.
Paul Barnhurst:
I agree with you. It’s really how do we crack the code of using our data and getting to the point where AI can help us be more effective, efficient, new insights with our data. You know, I’ve seen a lot of different tools out there and there’s a lot of great ideas coming and they’re coming rapidly and fast. I mean, anyone who’s, you know, looked at AI over the last year, I’m sure at times has been amazed at what it can do. I know I have like, oh wow, that’s actually a really good answer. I didn’t expect that. You know, not every time, but quite a, quite a bit. And so I agree with you, that’s the biggest opportunity right now is how do we incorporate that into our companies effectively, efficiently, both from a cost and a user and really, you know, take that insights to the next level.
Tunc Tezel:
True, true. It’s not about the cost saving per se, you know, replacing the FTEs by the bots and such. It’s beyond that.
Paul Barnhurst:
I agree. I, I am fully with you. It’s about the productivity improvements and the, and the good decisions. I know so many people worry, is AI gonna take my job? And it’s like, sure, will some jobs be taken by ai? Of course, of course they will. Of course. Where some jobs taken by the internet, you know, every invention, there are some jobs lost, but there are jobs gained usually over time it’s almost always a net positive ’cause we continue to employ more people and have more people in society. That’s just reality. But anyone who’s looking at it strictly around cost savings, I think is missing what it’s really about. If that’s your only focus of how can I get rid of, you know, some of my fp and a team or how can I get rid of, you know, some of my billing team or whatever. You need to think broader than that to really take advantage of it.
Tunc Tezel:
It is. It is much broader than that, like you said. I mean, it’s about getting that opportunity and getting it into the business so that you create a better experience for, you know, not only your company but also your customers, your, you know, suppliers and also the end consumer at the end. You know how you can respond to it in a very quick way.
Paul Barnhurst:
Agreed. So I have another question here for you and then we’re gonna move to our get to know you section. So this, the last question here in this section is one we like to ask people about what we call a strategic moment. So can you, if you, as you look back over your career, can you tell me about a time you experienced a strategic moment? What I mean is, you know, you had a strategic insight that later empowered you to drive change within the organization.
Tunc Tezel:
When I was in a regional role, we have done a SWOT analysis of the industry and all the players at a very global level. And then we call this a chess board. So it was in a way that we could see if we make this move, how are they gonna respond? And then if they make that move, how are we, how we are gonna respond to that? Sure. It was a great simulation. And then I took that learning and moving onto a local finance director role. And during one of our coffee mornings where we met with the GM and the marketing director, we are discussing the day, you know, football and such. Afterwards we were talking about the business challenges and how to grow the business and we said instead of going for small improvements, which is usually the case ’cause it’s much safer, we said, uh, what if we go for a big step change and you know, invest heavily in this market, what would happen and how can we make our difference?
You know, so that we have our name on the, you know, entrance of the door saying that these guys, they have done this kind of. And then so similarly we did that SWOT analysis for our market and complementing it with the pricing model, which was I think the key in terms of making it happen based on the live consumer data, which was great at that time. ’cause I mean the, we were so close in terms of our estimations. If we make, we get the price elasticity right somehow and uh, whatever price changes we made, we could see the reaction of the consumers, which was amazing. And also we looked into, from a marketing side, you know, how we can uh, understand the consumer better and what really they want. So we went to the board and present a case where that we asked for a significant investment to invest into the salesforce and coverage and then also a repositioning of a brand, relaunching it in a different way at a compelling price point.
That was the outcome of this pricing models and the study that we have done. And it was approved. And then within 18 months of time we gained two point a half percent market share. And this not only this improved our financial results obviously, but the whole team mentality was changed ’cause we were a small player in the market and we were always kind of trying to, you know, get, you know, small steps and such and they, I mean we all start thinking differently, differently. It gave a different, you know, kind of self-confidence in us and also a winning mindset in the market. So that was the kind of big change in the market.
Paul Barnhurst:
Thank you for sharing. That’s a great example. I appreciate that. And it sounds like, as you mentioned, it drove a big change in the market and that’s always exciting to see when you can have that kind of impact. So this next section is our called our Get to know You section. And so what we have is we have four questions. You get around around 30 seconds to answer each of these. So the idea is kind of go through ’em a little bit quickly here, but give you a minute to answer. And so I’m gonna start with the first one. This is one we like to ask everybody. What is something interesting about you? Maybe something that not many people would know. Kinda a fun fact.
Tunc Tezel:
I enjoy cooking. Uh, I enjoy cooking for the family friends. So you know, it’s a family fun thing for us. Um, and we are all at home. We try to cook together and it’s kind of, we have our own roles. So I am kind of specialized in the seafood. My son is specialized in the meat side. So who knows, maybe he’ll become the next salt pie in future <laugh>. And my daughter is good with smoothies and my wife’s an amazing cook and she’s great at everything. But I mean her pasties are to die for. So that’s why when we are all under one roof during holidays and such, we get to the kitchen, start cooking together and you know, get the most fun out of it.
Paul Barnhurst:
Right. I know whose house I’m coming to next time I’m in the UK.
Tunc Tezel:
You’re more than welcome.
Paul Barnhurst:
Thank you. I appreciate that. So the next question here, if you could meet one person in the world, dead or alive, who would you meet? And more importantly, why
Tunc Tezel:
Being Turkish? You know, I would say I would love to meet Atatürk who is the founder of the Turkish Republic. Uh, he was a genius. I mean, not only he was the best military tactician or commander, but he was highly intellectual. He has read more than 3000 books even on the war zone, you know? He was reading. He has written books on history, maths, math theories. He’s a great historian. And then during his 15 year in charge of the Republic, he has done amazing reforms, introducing a new alphabet, including coming up with the new alphabet, giving voting rights to women in the 1920s, the 1930s, investing into industrialization, industrialization, building planes at the time reforming the agricultural and education. You know, I don’t think that has ever been a leader, as diverse as he was. He was amazing. And the reason I’d love to meet him is during his last few years he was, he was ill and then he was diagnosed, he wasn’t diagnosed properly and then he was treated in a wrong way that made it quicker for him to die. You know, it was a kidney failure that caused him to die at the age of 57. So I could just tell him, if I meet him, I’ll just tell him that, you know, you’re there treating you wrongly. You need to look for alternative treatments <laugh> so that I could save him. So, you know, I cannot imagine if he had lived another 10 to 15 years more, you know, you could have, Turkey could have been in a different place.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. It, it’s amazing how the difference a transformational leader can make.
Tunc Tezel:
Exactly.
Paul Barnhurst:
You know, we, we’ve all seen him in different areas, whether it’s Steve Jobs and what he did or you know, the Turk or whoever it might be, you know, Michael Jordan in basketball, whatever. These people that transcend society in many ways and just do amazing things. And it’s always disappointing. Like you think of Gandhi, right? When the lives are cut short for whatever the reason might be. Unfortunately, so often we see that with transformational leaders. It seems like their lives are often cut short.
Tunc Tezel:
It
Paul Barnhurst:
Seems like it’d be great to see them, you know, be there longer. ’cause they can make they do so much good for society.
Tunc Tezel:
So true. Like the Mandela’s, I mean the Gandhi, the example you gave Michael Jordan, he took the basketball to a different level now. Yeah. That we all love. They’re amazing leaders.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah, agree. There’s, there’s a lot of great ones out there. So this next question is obviously a little different than the last one, but what is the last thing you Googled looked up on YouTube or you know, asked chat gpt slash generative AI as it relates to finance, excel, that area. We’re just curious to see what’s the last one?
Tunc Tezel:
Funny enough, I’ve, I try to use it not as often as my kids, but I, I’m, I’m trying, the last time I think I asked this, it was about the IFRS 15 question. This was about the cash discounts given to the customers. So I asked the question, you know, where should we book it? Because we were debating with a friend of, with my boss and he was saying, no, no, we should book it into, you know, part of the selling expense. I was like, cash discount, you can never book it there. And then the advice I got was not correct. So it was telling me to book it to selling as he was saying, but as per IFRS you have to deduct it from the net sales. So, you know, that’s why you need to be very careful how you get the, how you use the data. Uh, you know, don’t just take it and then give it back. Continue asking the right questions. Again, asking the right question is the key I think with the chat GPT as well. So that you can get to the right answer.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yes. And the other thing I found is you often have to uh, have a conversation with it. The first answer may be very surface level and hey, give me more detail on this or elaborate or I need to know about this specifically. ’cause sometimes you get surface and you know, it’s kind of like the five why’s, right? When you’re trying to get to the root of a problem, you keep asking why sometimes with chat GPT, you almost have to do the five why’s. You gotta keep prompting it to go a little deeper. And you have to have enough knowledge to ensure that it’s leading you in the general, you know, the right direction. Not knowing everything. But yeah, it’s amazing what it can do if you’re willing to really hone in your prompts. ’cause that’s really a key is how you ask it.
Tunc Tezel:
It is, it is. And the last, again, afterwards we were chatting with my daughter, she wants to do some internship and such. She’s 16 and she was about to write a cover letter, which she has never done before, obviously at 16, you know. Yeah. So I said, you know, why don’t you write your interest in chat GPT what you’re interested in, what you have done. And then, you know, cut some of the, you know, this academic achievements and things like that. And then tell her what you want to do later on where you want to do your internship. And then she entered all those data and such. And then poof, the cover letter came up. I said, okay, now read it and then make the changes according to yourself. ’cause this is not you, it’s just GPT. So you have to personalize that. And that was great. It worked miracles there.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. No, I’ve heard a lot of people starting to use it to help with resumes and cover letters and it really, it’s, it is a great first draft.
Tunc Tezel:
It is. Exactly. It’s the first draft that’s important. Yeah.
Paul Barnhurst:
So I, I’m like you, I’m a big, I’m a big fan of it. It’s fun to watch. So as we wrap up here, we’re coming to our end of our time. Just have two questions left for you. So the first one, if you could offer advice to someone starting a career in fp and a today, if you could give ’em a piece of advice, what would that be?
Tunc Tezel:
I would say always show your willingness to learn and never lose that. ’cause every day you learn something different. And again, ask questions and make mistakes and learn from them. That’s important. And the earlier you make the mistakes, the sooner you can fix them and then continue and be open to feedback. It’s a blessing, it’s a gift. You get any feedback and then work on those ones. Just not, don’t ignore them. And, but I really benefited most was I was never satisfied and I always asked for more to learn. You know, I started in treasury and my day was finishing quite early compared to the others. ’cause you know, it was related with the banks, the relationship. And then they were usually closing earlier so that they can close their side as well. And then afterwards I was just going to, you know, be reporting department accounting or budgeting.
I was just help trying to help them, you know, gimme something. And it’s helps on the teamwork side as well. Getting to know your colleagues, but also, I mean, it prepares yourself for the future opportunities. And always explore what other departments are doing. As I said before, spend the day in a sales rep car, you know, attend customer visits, understand their angle, you know, what’s in it for them. Always keep that question in your mind. How should I sell it to them? Uh, listen to the consumers. And when you go out for shopping, I mean, it’s easy things, you know, check the aisles, how the price, how the products are positioned. You know, the, what’s the promotions about, you know, what is, what are they trying to tell or sell. And chat to the shop managers you know about your products, get some info insights and then get involved in it. It’ll help you to understand the bigger picture, the wiring, not the numbers, but it’s about the story behind. Mm-Hmm.
Paul Barnhurst:
<affirmative>, great advice. And I realized I forgot one of our get to know you questions and I’ll get in trouble if I don’t ask this one. So we’re gonna go back for one second. Favorite Excel function or feature? What’s your favorite thing about Excel?
Tunc Tezel:
Oh, vlookup by far. That’s my favorite.
Paul Barnhurst:
Well, you know what, you’re in good company because more people have said VLOOKUP than anything else. So there you go. It is number one on the show. Well, you know, I just wanna take a minute and thank you for being on the show. Really appreciated you having you today. Enjoyed the conversation about business, partnering, storytelling, you know, some of the experiences you’ve had traveling all over the world, you know, and if someone’s listening to the show and they wanna get ahold of you or learn more about you, what’s the best way for them to do that
Tunc Tezel:
Through LinkedIn I would say I’m always active on LinkedIn. You know, I will respond promptly or alternatively, if they like, like running, they can join me in Fulham next to the Thames in the evenings after work, so we can have a chat whilst running.
Paul Barnhurst:
Alright. I, I’m a runner, so if I get over that way, I’ll join you for one of those runs.
Tunc Tezel:
That’s the best thing. Yes.
Paul Barnhurst:
I like to run. It is a, it’s a great sport. Well, thanks again for joining us. We really enjoyed having you on the show. Thank you,
Tunc Tezel:
Paul. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. All the best.
Speaker 4:
<silence>.