It’s the end of an era. This is Paul Barnhurst’s last episode as FP&A Today host. And in this episode he introduces new FP&A Today host: Glenn Hopper.
Glenn Hopper is a Chief Financial Officer with two decades of experience leading finance operations for private equity-backed companies. Glenn is an author and journalist, US Navy Veteran, #1 AI Finance leader, and a passionate advocate for FP&A.
In this episode:
- Glenn’s whirlwind career since he last appeared on the show
- Training FP&A on AI
- Why getting started on AI in finance is a painful audit
Why the first stages of AI implementation in finance have nothing to do with AI - Launching the definitive LinkedIn course for generative AI and finance
- Why it is vital for finance professionals to understand the base of AI
- Glenn’s favorite episode of FP&A Today
- Why I decided to become the new host of FP&A Today
- Why there’s no need to hide my Southern accent on the show
- Turning the tables on Paul
- Paul’s final message
Follow Glenn Hopper at https://www.linkedin.com/in/gbhopperiii/
Follow Paul Barnhurst at https://www.linkedin.com/in/thefpandaguy/
Paul Barnhurst:
Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A Today, I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka, the FP&A Guy. is brought to you by Data Rails, the financial planning and analysis platform for Excel users. Every week we welcome a leader from the world of financial planning and analysis. For the last two years, I have been saying that line every week, and today it is with mixed emotion I share that will be changing. This is my last episode hosting FP&A today. With that in mind, I wanted to briefly talk to you, the audience about the last two years before I introduce this week’s guest and future host of the show. So, over the last two years that I have hosted FP&A today, we have accomplished a lot. And I say we because it takes a team, data rails, SaaS pod, the team behind us that does all the audio and video and makes me sound good and cleans up all the ums and ahs and other mistakes.
So I’ve had amazing support along the way. We’ve accomplished a lot over the last two years. We’ve hosted over a hundred episodes. This is episode 101. Along the way, we are nominated for a People’s Choice Podcast award for best business podcast. We’ve had numerous guests from all over the world in all levels. We’ve had CEOs, CFOs, VPs of FP&A, analysts of FP&A college interns. We’ve covered all kinds of topics. Everything from how to build an FP&A shared service center to how AI will disrupt and change FP&A a going forward. You know, one of the things we all learned together is that many guests have a favorite Excel formula. The number one Excel formula for our guests over these last two years has been the lookup. Thanks to you, the audience, this show has become the number one FP&A podcast globally, something we’re incredibly proud of.
We’ve had nearly 250,000 downloads of the audio and a number of people who have watched the video, another 30,000 or so. You know, I’ve received notes nearly weekly from different people thanking me for the show or thanking me for a guest or something they learned that helped them to be a better FP&A professional, something I’m really proud of. It’s been a, an amazing ride. I’m grateful for all that’s been accomplished. I’m especially grateful for Datarails for giving me a chance to host this show and for being a pa fabulous partner. But the time has come to pass the torch to our new host. With that being said, I’m super excited to welcome back to the show. Not only is the guest this week, but as the new host of FP&A Today, Glenn Hopper. Glenn, thanks for joining me.
Glenn Hopper:
Hey, Paul, great to see you. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m with you in that, um, it’s kind of a bittersweet moment because I’m so used to listening to you on this podcast every week, and, uh, and now you’re moving on and I’m, I’m you, you’re leaving some big shoes to fill Sir.
Paul Barnhurst:
Well, I, I really appreciate that. I’m confident you’ll do a great job and the audience will, uh, enjoy, uh, a change in voice for a while. So I’m sure you’ll do, uh, you’ll do fabulous. You know, I wanna start by asking you a question. What have you been up to since we last chatted? I think when we had you on, it was roughly episode 50, and you had just created your generative AI using chat, GPT FP&A tool. Remember we talked quite a bit about that. So you had just, you had just finished it. I think you had just released your article, or were getting ready to release your article around that time with I think it was Fortune or something, or one of Yeah, well, I can’t, one of the big magazines.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah. So that, that was really the beginning of the whirlwind. That was 2023 that rolled into 2024. You know, a couple years before that, I had written a book on using artificial intelligence and machine learning and finance. But the book I knew when I wrote it, it wasn’t a super accessible book. It was pretty niche. It was, um, you know, you had to know Python and be able to write SQL queries and R and understand, um, machine learning, which I know more and more, uh, FP&A professionals are. But, um, you know, the book was just kind of, uh, something I put out there because it was, important to me. But once generative AI came out and I did, I, you know, timing is, is kind of everything. I did that project pretty early on and that got traction and that just sort of ballooned into, I’ve had more, I’ve been on more podcasts and speaking engagements and, and webinars, uh, in the past 12 months probably than in my life combined before that. So it’s been a whirlwind. And yeah, in the, in the midst of all that I’ve been, um, you know, in my consulting work I’ve moved from fractional interim CFO to, you know, consulting on M&A and the sort of the traditional fractional CFO work to more and more, uh, consulting people, a lot of FP&A people on, um, um, artificial intelligence implementations. And I’m working now on productizing some of these, uh, AI tools that people would be able to use in their business.
Paul Barnhurst:
Amazing. So a lot has changed. That’s exciting. So what goes into helping a company, you know, get ready for AI? I’m just curious, what does that usually look like?
Glenn Hopper:
<laugh>, it’s, you, you think it’s gonna be this really cool, like high tech thing, and it’s not. It is a painful process audit is step one because before we can use this data, we have to understand how it’s being created. It’s, it’s the same thing you do in FP&AIt’s identifying your sources of truth, understanding the data universe that you have, compiling all your data, making sure everybody’s singing from the same sheet of music and being able to report and, uh, you know, knocking down information silos. And, uh, really, I, even without AI, when I come my first a hundred days as a CFO at a company, I come in and this is exactly what I do there too. It’s what, it doesn’t matter the technology it’s being delivered from, we still have to get access to the data and you can’t get or understand the data until you understand your processes. So it’s kind of painful. It’s, it’s like a, a root canal, uh, you know, doing this. But, um, at the end of a root canal, you have fixed teeth and, um, at the end of this process, you have, uh, magic AI , I guess <laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. As a guy who’s had multiple root canals, including root canal, redone from the top down. I can relate to that one and the pain of it. So, and you know, as I listen to you say that, it sounds like basically it’s come in and audit process and data to make sure they’re at a point where the data actually has value. It’s not all just crap, so that it, the machine can give intelligent advice and analyze and make smart decisions. ’cause if the data isn’t good, the output isn’t gonna be the good. It’s the same old saying, regardless of what the technology is, garbage in, garbage out. Did I summarize it right?
Glenn Hopper:
You really did. And the funny thing is, I can, everybody wants to AI wash what their products are right now, <laugh>, but I can, uh, you know, and they’re just, oh, we have this with AI. Usually the first changes I make have nothing to do with AII’m not gonna point anything AI related at it because I need to make sure that just the data is flowing between systems first. So it’s, I mean, and truthfully, at the end of the day, if you don’t have to use AI, then, then don’t. AI is not a magic cure all. And there’s plenty that can be done without it. And there’s also, you know, if we’re talking about generative AI, there’s older, uh, more trustworthy, reliable processes that you can get better results than you could today with ai. So AI is the buzzword, and I’m certainly gonna help people get there, but not if we don’t need to. I ride bikes, um, bike and bicycles, not motor motorbikes. I don’t think my wife would let me do that, but, uh, and you know, I don’t need to have the same, you wouldn’t need both if
Paul Barnhurst:
That makes you feel impacted.
Glenn Hopper:
<laugh>. Um, I don’t need to have the same bike. I mean, I would love to, they look cool, but it would be absurd for me to ride the same bicycle that like the tour de Frances guys ride. So, you know, AI, same way, if you’re, you know, you just have a couple of systems and not a whole lot of data, we can get you a really long, long way without using AI. But when it, when it comes time to use it, you’re gonna be in a much better place too if you’ve got all your data cleaned up. So it’s really just data maturity and cleanup is what I focus on.
Paul Barnhurst:
And it goes back to the whole thing. We’ve been saying it for years, whether it’s AI, whether it’s machine learning, whether it’s analysis is a data-driven culture is more successful as a company. The data has been overwhelmingly clear that if you use data to enhance and make smart decisions doesn’t mean every decision is made with data. And doesn’t mean you 100% rely on it, but if you really learn to trust the data and kind of put that first, then you’re gonna better be able to utilize the technology regardless of what the technology is.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah, exactly. Data management, data governance, get data lexicon, everything we’ve been talking about for years, this is just the next new tool to throw. And the people who started early and built out good FP&A programs, they’re, they’re miles ahead. And especially finance, that wasn’t just in that ivory tower of, oh no, we’re just the numbers people, but finance that was stretched across the organization. Business partnering, embedded FP&A really into all the metrics across the company, not just the financial. If you already have that, you’ve done the lion’s share of the work to get ready for AI implementation.
Paul Barnhurst:
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Yeah. So basically companies that have good FP&A a ’cause you can only have good fp a with good data or say, not only, but most of the time, I think almost always you have to have good data to have good FP&A, but those that have both are well positioned to be even more productive in the future.
Glenn Hopper:
Absolutely. The, the shorter distance to get to AI if you’ve already got your data house in order. ’cause if not, I mean some of my clients, it’s like we come in and it’s like, first off, we’re gonna fix your chart of accounts So imagine the, the path that you have to go from that to AI
Paul Barnhurst:
It. It’s the common fractional CFO first thing. You come in, they decide they need one. Okay, you’ve been on accrual based accounting for five years and you’ve paid no attention to when anything’s booked,. So we’re gonna start by trying to normalize some of this and get it in the right buckets. Then we’re gonna redo your chart of account, then we’re gonna understand your systems so that we can start working on your other data and a year later we can build you a good budget or three months or six months or whatever.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah, you’re still depreciating this desk you bought in 1978, you know, that kind of thing. What is going on?
Paul Barnhurst:
So I have a few more questions here for you, and then I’m gonna turn it over to you to ask me a couple questions before we, uh, you know, end the end the show here. I know you launched a LinkedIn course leveraging generative AI in finance and accounting. So how did that come about? Why did you decide to do the course?
Glenn Hopper:
So the, it was just part of the wave and I just 20, you know, for the past 12, 18 months, I’ve just been riding the wave. So I started doing a lot of public speaking about AI and a lot of webinars and they actually reached out to me and there’s a big push because the LinkedIn community is wanting to learn about it. And so I feel like sales and marketing, I don’t know how this happened, but they jumped so far ahead of finance people, which to me, like we’re the original BI people. Like how did we get passed by <laugh> sales and marketing and the use of of machine learning? And well, I’ll tell you how it’s ’cause revenue versus back office. But, um, so yeah, they reached out and they were trying to create, uh, you know, specific for industry and for profession courses.
And, um, I guess if I get out in public and yammer enough that I’m, I’m gonna get some attention. So they, yeah, they reached out to me and it’s really, I mean, the reason I wrote the book, I knew it wasn’t gonna be a bestseller, uh, when I wrote it, but I’m passionate about this stuff and I’ve seen kind of the before and after. So as much as I love the implementations, which it’s kinda like standing up FP&A, implementations are fun the way running a marathon is fun, <laugh>, um, it’s really cool when you’re done. Um, but you know, the process is hard. But, but I, I don’t know, maybe I have a pedantic nature. Are we speaking
Paul Barnhurst:
From experience? Have you ran a marathon?
Glenn Hopper:
Yes, I’ve run like 25 or 26 of them at this point. So <laugh>, I’ve only run four. They get slower every year. Yeah, <laugh>. Wow. So, um, I didn’t, I didn’t know we shared that in common, so
Paul Barnhurst:
Didn’t either. That’s what podcasts are for, to learn these things about each other.
Glenn Hopper:
<laugh>. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. So I don’t know. On, on the LinkedIn course, it was an opportunity to get a large platform where I could tell a lot of people, and we don’t go deep in the weeds on the course, and I think that’s okay because there’ll be other opportunities and ways to do that. But really right now, my mantra has been, you know, we don’t have to understand how this monitor works to use it. I don’t have to understand, you know, how my coffee maker works to drink coffee, but with the power of, you know, those are passive things. The power of AI that could be replacing people could be augmenting what we do. You have to have some level of understanding of it before you can use it. So I really am am passionate that I don’t care what your job is, you need to understand the base.
I’m not saying you have to become a data scientist or a a computer developer, but you need to understand essentially what’s happening. So the LinkedIn course is a great way to do that. And I’ve got some other, uh, courses coming out over the next 12, 18 months. Uh, uh, some additional training and, and speaking and webinar kind of things going on, um, where I, I hope to continue because I think our, you know, finance and accounting people we’re kind of laggards in a lot of technology areas. So I think, you know, I’m gonna keep, I’m gonna keep getting on my soapbox and preaching that.
Paul Barnhurst:
We can definitely put a link in the show notes to your course. I know a lot of people have taken it. It’s on my, uh, list of courses to take and all my free time.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah. I know about your free time or lack thereof. Anyway, stuff
Paul Barnhurst:
I want. Yeah, I figured you’d laugh at that. You have been a fan of FP&A Today for a long time. Do you have a favorite episode?
Glenn Hopper:
It’s so, it’s funny that you mention that, and I, you know, I, there’s so many that I would, uh, I’d be hard pressed to recall a name, but there was one, and I think you just did this, it was in the last three or four months, um, it was FP&A for companies between five and 50 million, and it was Duke Heninger and Duke
Paul Barnhurst:
Henninger and John Allen.
Glenn Hopper:
Yes. So I loved that. And so confession, I’ve actually, I, I never who listens to one episode of podcast twice. I listened to that episode twice because there was so much that just resonated with me because my whole career has been in the SMB space. So the issues that they were going through are exactly the kind of ones that I did. And even like hearing them talk about doing the consulting too I could completely relate to everything. So yeah, I don’t, uh, you know, there may be, uh, I’ll have to think back. There may be older ones that I liked a lot too, but that one in particular, um, it’s the first one that came to mind that really resonated with me. Yeah.
Paul Barnhurst:
And was there one particular story or thing they said that stuck out or just kind of being able to relate to the entire episode?
Glenn Hopper:
So it was the, it was the entire episode, but also, um, talking about the, they talked about the restaurant industry, right? . Was, uh, so that was of, of interest to me having a million years ago, uh, food service background, but also talking about, uh, during that in COVID it reminded me of when, um, I was the CFO of a, a car wash business during the 08-09, uh, financial crisis. And it was just hearing how they went through adversity, through all that. And it just, and, and knowing the size businesses that they were working with, it just, um, and, and how they were addressing it. It just, it felt like we all could have been in the same room at the same time doing the exact same thing. <
Paul Barnhurst:
That’s great. And if you ever want an introduction to either of them, let me know. I’m, I’m personal friends with them. I didn’t just have ’em on the show. I know both of ’em well.
Glenn Hopper:
Oh, that’s great. Yeah. You guys had great rapport on that show too. Yes. Yeah,
Paul Barnhurst:
It helped. We know each other quite well, so that definitely helped. So, last question I have for you, then I’m gonna turn it over to you to see if you have any questions for me. So what made you decide to host FP&A Today? I know Datarails reached out to you and asked if you’d be interested. Why’d you say yes?
Glenn Hopper:
So here’s, I don’t know if you knew this, ’cause I know you and I have have, have talked a lot, but I actually, my first job before outta college, before I went and got my MBA, I was a journalist and I ended up being, I did know that. So I ended up being a print journalist, you know, I was one of those guys. I’ve got a face for radio or face for podcast, and then a voice for print. So back then, I was a, a journalist in the Navy, actually. And, um, I was a, a very dedicated student back at that time. And I missed being the honor graduate the top graduate in our whole cohort by like some fraction of a point. And the reason I missed it is there was one instructor who was from Alabama, and it was in broadcast journalism, and he had a thicker Southern accent than I did, except when he went on air, he turned into complete just Walter Cronkite, just no accent, just delivering it.
And so he dinged me. ’cause he was, he just was couldn’t, he couldn’t let go that I had a southern accent and that I couldn’t correct it on the, on the air. Um, so that turned me away from, uh, from broadcast journalism. But now I mean, you know, there are so many people with podcasts that, um, I feel like, uh, I don’t, I don’t have to try to sound like Walter Cronkite and, uh, <laugh>. I can, I can come in and, uh, not try to hide my southern accent and talk about some geeky numbers stuff, but people have asked me through the years, you know, if I wanted to host a podcast. And I had always said no, but there’s the Datarails opportunity, the audience that this podcast has, the people I get to work with and the, and the subject matter.
It’s, it’s all just right in my wheelhouse. And I know I lean towards, and I keep talking about ai, but it, it’s all related and it’s just, it’s the latest tool. It’s still FP&A. So, um, yeah, so this just seems like a, a great opportunity and, uh, you know, the, the kinds of people you get to talk to and, and your lead up when you were talking about what you gained from it, I mean, that’s my same ambition here, is to gain knowledge from talking to all these brilliant people that ha I mean, how many people are lucky enough to be able to sit around and talk to, um, finance nerds all day? You know.
Paul Barnhurst:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing the backstory. I didn’t know all of that. Funny enough, I started my career working for the Navy. I was civilian, but I was stationed on a Navy base. So it sounds like we have a, a few things in common, the marathons, the Navy, the podcast, so that’s great. A lot of fun. But, uh, you’ll do great, Glenn, I’m sure of that. I mean, the audience is in good hands and I’m excited to see where you take it to new Heights. But before we end, any questions you wanna ask me, here’s your chance to play Host.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah, I’m gonna <laugh> I thought about it, it would be funny if my first time I tried to ask a question if I just froze up like a deer in the headlights and just <laugh> freak out the Datarails people. We’ve made a terrible mistake. But, um, yeah, so you, you asked me, and uh, you’re certainly, um, I don’t know, this may be a harder question for you, but do you have a favorite episode?
Paul Barnhurst:
So I have an episode that’s very personal to me, and it’s my favorite for that. Not that I think I did the best job interviewing or that it was the most listened to episode, but we did an episode on mental health. We had on two ladies that talked about the importance of taking care of yourself mentally and making sure that you take care of your employees and focus on their mental health. And that’s passionate to me because I’ve lost a brother to mental health. I I’ve lost other family members. It’s something I’ve dealt with. So that, that is my favorite episode because it’s very personal. I mean, I’ve shared this quite a bit on LinkedIn and I’m open about it. And I had a brother that unfortunately took his own life. And so anything I can do to help in that area is something I’m deeply passionate about.
Glenn Hopper:
Wow. And how, I mean, and it is one of those things that in a work environment, it, it’s hard. You know, you don’t talk about it a lot. So for you to be able to bring that to the listeners here and to be, to have that vulnerability, but also to sort of broadcast that it’s okay, it’s not, not just, okay, it’s, we should be talking about this, this should be important. And that’s, uh, you know, that’s a great thing about the, uh, the power of this, this podcast that you were able to take an important message like that and, and bring that to the listeners and viewers. So that’s, that’s incredible.
Paul Barnhurst:
Well, thank you. It’s definitely a, I said it’s a message I share on LinkedIn and one I’m passionate about that we all need to talk about. That’s
Glenn Hopper:
Great. And I know you’re, um, you, you’re going to continue on here. Um, I don’t know all the details, but, um, what, what’s next for you? Where you, where are you headed post, uh, FP&A today here? What, what do you got going on? I know you’ve got a lot of things going on <laugh>.
Paul Barnhurst:
I do. So, you know, a lot of exciting things. I’m currently working on some course content for the new Wall Street Prep certificate that’s coming. I think you’re also doing a little bit around that. That’s a conjunction between Wharton and Wall Street Prep that Christian Wittig’s working on. I also am, you know, I have my third generation market guide that will be out by the time this is released. It’ll be be coming out just before then. Um, I’m also gonna be continuing to do some podcasts on my own. So I’m really excited about that. You know, you can always check those out. And then continuing to train companies and, you know, build community and be a, be a voice out there for FP&A and how we can make it better.
Glenn Hopper:
That’s great. You, I mean, you’re the FP&A Guy, so no matter where you go, you’re gonna be the FP&A Guy. Exactly. I’m
Paul Barnhurst:
Gonna be the fp a guy. People can still find me. I’ll still be talking about business partnering and all those things that make great FP&A.
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah. Alright, three lightning round questions. ’cause I know you’re, you’re a little bit pressed for time today. So the first one is, and I’m putting you on the spot here. You gotta, we’re gonna test your creative mind. If you’re the FP&A Guy, I don’t have a nickname. What, what should I be <laugh>
Paul Barnhurst:
The dude?
Glenn Hopper:
Yeah. Alright, <laugh>, I was gonna say, you might’ve been thinking of something you couldn’t say on Air
Paul Barnhurst:
Gonna see the AI dude, the AI guy., I threw out a few names. There you go.
Glenn Hopper:
Okay. Um, next, uh, just real quick, and we, we can throw in the show notes too, obviously, but, uh, how can people stand in touch with you past FP&A Today.
Paul Barnhurst:
Question? Yeah. So of course they can find me on LinkedIn. That’s probably the easiest way. They can also go to my website, the fp a guy.com, and people can email me p barnhurst at the fp a guy.com. I’m always around, so feel free to find me on any of those platforms.
Glenn Hopper:
Awesome. All right. Last question. You ready?
Paul Barnhurst:
I’m ready.
Glenn Hopper:
What is your favorite Excel function?
Paul Barnhurst:
You know, it’s not a function, it’s a feature Power query.
Glenn Hopper:
Nice. Nice. Yep. There
Paul Barnhurst:
You go. And I love on Pivot, if I had to pick something in Power Query, I love me some on Pivot.
Glenn Hopper:
Excellent. Well, now we know. So I, I don’t, am I closing out the show or are you closing out the show? I don’t, I don’t have an outro written, so I don’t
Paul Barnhurst:
Let’s, ready. 1, 2, 3. No, I’ll go ahead and take us out. Well, thank you Glen for interviewing me and for being a guest as well. In closing, I’m just wanna sign off for one last time, last say, thank you for being a loyal listener for the last two years. What a great opportunity. The show’s in great Hands with Glenn. I’m confident he’ll do fa fabulous things and take it to new heights. And with that, we’ll say goodbye. Signing off for the last time. FP&A Guy